When Christians denounce Islam because it commands to kill and terrorize other people, Muslims used to counter it by citing [1 Samuel 15:3] as more severe than what Allah commanded.
Questioned Verse:
[1 Samuel 15:2-3] ‘I witnessed what the Amalekites did to the Israelites when they hindered them on their way up from Egypt. Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
ANSWER:
Firstly, that extermination order from God was limited for a particular tribe only, and not for all other people as what Allah commanded their believers. Secondly, that event does not justify the massive killings of non-Muslims carried out by Islam. Did Yahweh kill other people because they were not adherent to Judaism? Nope, He killed Amalekites because aside from being idolatrous, Amalekites attacked the innocent Israelites while exhausted from their exodus. The Israelites were led by God but still the Amalekites attacked them because they had no fear of God. Kindly read;
[Exodus 17:8] After this, the Amalekites came and attacked the Israelites at Rephidim.
[Deuteronomy 25:17] Remember what the Amalekites did to you along your way from Egypt, how they met you on your journey when you were tired and weary, and they attacked all your stragglers; they had no fear of God.
And this is the main reason why God wanted to blot out the Amalekites, kindly read;
[Exodus 17:14] Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write this on a scroll as a reminder and recite it to Joshua, because I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”
The destruction of Amalekites was already prophesied by Balaam 400 years before the time of king Saul, kindly read;
Balaam’s Final Three Oracles
[Numbers 24:20-22]:
Then Balaam saw Amalek and lifted up an oracle, saying:
“Amalek was first among the nations,
but his end shall be destruction.”
Next he saw the Kenites and lifted up an oracle, saying:
“Your dwelling place is secure,
and your nest is set in a cliff.
Yet Kain will be destroyed
when Asshur takes you captive.”
Why not imitate the behavior of the Kenites whose lives were spared by God because they showed kindness to Israelites when they journeyed from Egypt? Kindly read;
[1 Samuel 15:5-6] Saul came to the city of Amalek and lay in wait in the valley. And he warned the Kenites, “Since you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt, go on and get away from the Amalekites. Otherwise I will sweep you away with them.” So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.
God waited 400 years for Amalekites to change from their evil ways, but nothing happened. If you attack Israel, you will suffer the wrath of God, so I advice you Muslims to stop attacking Israel if you want to maintain your eternal lives. It’s not true that God hates the Jews as propagated by your religion. In fact today, the Islamic countries have been attempting to destroy Israel but failed though Israel is just a tiny nation. This is to fulfill what God had promised in Tanakh that He will bring the Israelites back to their land, and from that point, no one can uproot them anymore. Kindly read the following verses;
[Amos 9:15] I will plant the people of Israel in their land, and they won’t be uprooted again from the land that I gave them, says the lord your God.
[Jeremiah 32:37] I will surely gather my people from all the lands to which I have banished them in my furious anger and great wrath, and I will return them to this place and make them dwell in safety.
Read: Warning To The Muslims Who Want To Exterminate The Jews
Yahweh cares for other people unlike Allah, to prove;
[Exodus 23:9] Do not oppress a foreign resident, since you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners; for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt.
[Deuteronomy 23:7] Do not despise an Edomite, for he is your brother. Do not despise an Egyptian, because you lived as a foreigner in his land.
[Deuteronomy 24:17] Do not deny justice to the foreigner or the fatherless, and do not take a widow’s cloak as security.
Read: Yahweh cares for Nonbelievers
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ALSO READ: Did Jesus Come Not To Bring Peace But A Sword?
Surah 9:5 in the Qur’an is context -specific. It refers only to those who broke the contract, if you read the contract. So you seek the context is the Bible, but when it comes to the Qur’an is the context irrelevant? You seem to have ignored it. . When Russia and Germany made a pact, and Hitler broke it, Russia declared war on Germany
in WW2 as what else do you expect they do, hand over their land as a gift?
Have you read 9:6 of the Qur’an which says if they surrender, take them to a place of safety that they may receive the truth. Where does the Bible say allow surrender – or is the Bible all about killing?
Regarding captives collected in war, Muhammad said treat slaves the way you treat yourselves and do not torture them. Have you seen anything like that in the Bible? Islam had laws during wars, e.g. not burning trees, leaving animals alone, not killing women, leaving monks alone, do not destroy churches, leave alone the ill and old and babies. The Bible has none of these considerations.
Sir please stay away from answering Islam and the like of it. They do nothing but brain wash you, like the children of nazi Germany were brainwashed to hate Jews. Afterall you woundnt send a new converted Christian to an anti Christian site would you? If you are biased you will never get to the truth… And think do you believe you are at the truth already just coz you were raised to believe that? If you ignore my message and instantly debunk it rememeber the job of a Muslim is only to remind.
Dear Sir Bob,
First, the topic above does not tackle about contract or war agreement between Israel and their enemies. The Amalekites attacked the people of God without cause. Second, the Quran 9:5 you put up as your reference does not mention about a treaty between Muhammad and the nonMuslims, but rather it commands you muslims to ambush nonMulims everywhere except during sacred months, and except if they convert to Islam, or they can refuse Islam but should pay “sakah” (submisson tax). https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/9.5
And speaking of a TREATY, your prophet never obeyed a single treaty with nonMuslims. The Muslims can only make a treaty with nonMuslims if they are at the disadvantage, thus, It’s only for meantime. But after they can gain enough resources, they will break the contract.
And speaking of grabbing lands, your prophet sent armies to other countries in order to conquer them and grabbed their lands.
The Muslims are commanded by Mummahad a.k.a. Allah to kill people for a single reason _that is they are not Muslims. The victims can only spare their lives by accepting Islam, or stay nonMuslims but should pay the submission tax.
If I were you, stop defending Islam because it cannot be defended, that’s why Muslim apologists will resort to lying and fabricating stories to cover the shame of their religion. Kindly read this:
https://silawantribe.com/2017/06/20/islam-commands-brutal-killing-of-non-muslims/
Hey sire.
Thanks for this. I know you are a kind interesting individual and I wish you success, I pray that Allah, The most compassionate and Just one honours you bi’ithnillah.
You kindly said I was lying. But if I am lying, then I pray that God showers his curse upon me for doing so. I suggest you do the same and curse me if I am doing so.
Firstly, the treaty I was talking about was in 9:1 + The treaty and the 4 months thing are 2 separate things.+ And when Muslims were at an advantage they still kept the treaties and were very just and kind… take historians words for it.
Regarding ibn kathir you quotes, he said ” fight on the earth in general, except Sacred Area”. This needs clarifying all due respect to this blessed man, because what he meant was at that time only (so if a pagan OF THAT TIME WHO BROKE THE CONTRACT was in France, Muhammad’s PBUH army could kill him in FRANCE).
He also said “This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam”. What he meant was the pagan has no choice but to accept Islam (based on the assumption that he likes it and there is no force).
Lets see what scholars say regarding verse 9:5 = What is meant by this verse is: Fight the polytheists who are fighting against you.” (Ahkam Al-Quran, by Ibn Al-Arabi, volume 2, page 456)
Regarding verse 9:6 = Those who wanted peace and stopped their hostilities, after hearing the recitation of the Quran – they were allowed to go freely anywhere they wished. They were not forced to convert to Islam (Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn ‘Abbas)
Regarding alleged compulsion: Muhammad made them pay ‘zakat, if they refused, the Prophet LET THEM RETURN SAFELY TO THEIR HOMES.’ Striving in the Path of God: Jihad and Martyrdom in Islamic Thought By Asma Afsaruddin, page 88.
No one was ever forced into Islam. [also check Baqarah:256]
De L’acy O leary [non Muslim historian] said: “History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever accepted.”
You mentioned the submission tax: The submission take is the same as you paying your taxes in Ur country. pay the government taxes to help them spend on society and the poor. If you said ‘No’ to your taxes you would get arrested. If Muslims are ruling the country you would need to pay taxes to them. mercifully, you would pay less than the Muslims if you are a non muslim!
To conclude: submission tax is like the taxes you give urself + No compulsion by Muhammad P + commanded to fight those who fight you + If enemy wanted peace, peace was provided + Islam not spread by the sword + these verses apply only to the contract-breaking non Muslims at that time. Today nice Muslim and a nice non Muslim shouldn’t be enemies.
You say Muhammad P never obeyed a single treaty, saying that is like brainwashed Nazi saying ‘Jews deed to die’. I am afraid you have an unbalanced view on history. O’learys quote should help. A honest view on history too.
Muhammad was known to be truthful, even by his enemies – he never broke a contract.
Finally, I saw your link. There are 2 possible types of anti Islamists, the fist type searches on answering islam and when he finds something cool he tries them on Muslims. The second type finds objections to Islam and discusses them with Muslims with an open heart so he knows whether they are valid contention or just non sense. You can easily find explanation of those verses… If ye seeketh the truth, the truth shall set you free!
I pray this find you well. I have no intention is convincing you, since I am not you Dad. I am you friend who is giving advice. The purpose of the message is to provide an equal sided case to the reader so he can make his own decision. I also am unwilling for further debate if it leads to nothing.
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/04/22/an-historical-examination-of-the-sword-verse-surah-95/
If you disagree, kindly say ‘thanks but I disagree’ but don’t get offended.
Kind regards take care!
BOB
Hey sire.
Thanks for this. I know you are a kind interesting individual and I wish you success, I pray that Allah, The most compassionate and Just one honours you bi’ithnillah.
You kindly said I was lying. But if I am lying, then I pray that God showers his curse upon me for doing so. I suggest you do the same.
Firstly, the treaty I was talking about was in 9:1 + The treaty and the 4 months thing are 2 separate things.+ And when Muslims were at an advantage they still kept the treaties and were very just and kind… take historians words for it.
Regarding ibn kathir you quotes, he said ” fight on the earth in general, except Sacred Area”. This needs clarifying all due respect to this blessed man, because what he meant was at that time only (so if a pagan OF THAT TIME WHO BROKE THE CONTRACT was in France, Muhammad’s PBUH army could kill him in FRANCE).
He also said “This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam”. What he meant was the pagan has no choice but to accept Islam (based on the assumption that he likes it and there is no force).
Lets see what scholars say regarding verse 9:5 = What is meant by this verse is: Fight the polytheists who are fighting against you.” (Ahkam Al-Quran, by Ibn Al-Arabi, volume 2, page 456)
Regarding verse 9:6 = Those who wanted peace and stopped their hostilities, after hearing the recitation of the Quran – they were allowed to go freely anywhere they wished. They were not forced to convert to Islam (Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn ‘Abbas)
Regarding alleged compulsion: Muhammad made them pay ‘zakat, if they refused, the Prophet LET THEM RETURN SAFELY TO THEIR HOMES.’ Striving in the Path of God: Jihad and Martyrdom in Islamic Thought By Asma Afsaruddin, page 88.
No one was ever forced into Islam. [also check Baqarah:256]
De L’acy O leary [non Muslim historian] said: “History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever accepted.”
You mentioned the submission tax: The submission take is the same as you paying your taxes in Ur country. pay the government taxes to help them spend on society and the poor. If you said ‘No’ to your taxes you would get arrested. If Muslims are ruling the country you would need to pay taxes to them. mercifully, you would pay less than the Muslims if you are a non muslim!
To conclude: submission tax is like the taxes you give urself + No compulsion by Muhammad P + commanded to fight those who fight you + If enemy wanted peace, peace was provided + Islam not spread by the sword + these verses apply only to the contract-breaking non Muslims at that time. Today nice Muslim and a nice non Muslim shouldn’t be enemies.
You say Muhammad P never obeyed a single treaty, saying that is like brainwashed Nazi saying ‘Jews deed to die’. I am afraid you have an unbalanced view on history. O’learys quote should help. A honest view on history too.
Muhammad was known to be truthful, even by his enemies – he never broke a contract.
Finally, I saw your link. There are 2 possible types of anti Islamists, the fist type searches on answering islam and when he finds something cool he tries them on Muslims. The second type finds objections to Islam and discusses them with Muslims with an open heart so he knows whether they are valid contention or just non sense. You can easily find explanation of those verses… If ye seeketh the truth, the truth shall set you free!
I pray this find you well. I have no intention is convincing you, since I am not you Dad. I am you friend who is giving advice. The purpose of the message is to provide an equal sided case to the reader so he can make his own decision. I also am unwilling for further debate if it leads to nothing.
https://discover-the-truth.com/2016/04/22/an-historical-examination-of-the-sword-verse-surah-95/
If you disagree, kindly say ‘thanks but I disagree’ but don’t get offended.
Kind regards take care!
BOB
Sir Bob, As I have told you, if you defend Islam you will resort to lying.
Muslims are fighting and killing other people for only one reason _they are not Muslims. Muhammad killed those Jews because they did not accept Islam.
You Muslims are commanded by Allah to fight against the disbelievers until they accept Islam or to eliminate the disbelievers. It does not say kill them if they attack you. What will the nonMuslims do so that Muslims will not harm them? They should accept Islam or stay as nonMuslims but pay the submission tax. So Islam is definitely converting people by force, yet you Muslims keep claiming that there is no forcible conversion in Islam;
[8:12] “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
[8:7] [Remember, O believers], when Allah promised you one of the two groups – that it would be yours – and you wished that the unarmed one would be yours. But Allah intended to establish the truth by His words and to eliminate the disbelievers.
[Sahih Muslim 22] I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah. https://sunnah.com/muslim:22
[Sahih Muslim 31:5917] “Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: ‘Allah’s Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?’ Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ‘Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger’.” https://hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/sahih-muslim-book-31-the-merits-of-the-companions-pbut-of-the-holy-prophet-PBUH/sahih-muslim-book-031-hadith-number-5917
Muslims are to be killed if they leave Islam, yet you claim that there is no compulsion in Islam;
[Quran 3:56] “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
[4:89] They wish that you reject Faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya’ (protectors or friends) from them, till they emigrate in the Way of Allah (to Muhammad SAW). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold) of them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya’ (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.
Base your argument on what your books are telling because that is where Islam lies, and not by personal opinion or justification.
Submission tax (Jizya) is not government tax don’t tell a lie, but it’s a payment by the victims to stay alive. Muslims also called this a ‘protection tax’, protection from what? victim’s protection from the sword of the Muslims.
[Quran 9:29] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Yes yes sure you are right.
Whatever helps you to sleep well at night my friend.
As long as you are able to have a good night sleep yes you are correct
Lol